Sign Historical Group

Captain W. J. Hull,
211-06 75th. Ave.,
Bayside, New York.

Dear Joe:

I enjoyed your letter of the 17th, and was pleased to hear from you again.  Jack Smith had written to me, and mentioned your meeting.  I'd like to know more about the Civilian Saucer Intelligence organization.  What is the address of headquarters and do they publish information?  Unfortunately, I shall be in ground school on part of a six months check on April 23rd – but would appreciate hearing your opinion of Ivan Sanderson and his tape recordings on the Sutton case.

Before I go into anything else, I'll cover that AP item from the Air Force regarding my statement about "hardware".

Norman Bean, an electronic engineer, and Technical Director for WTVJ, one of our local TV stations, gives lectures on the saucer subject on the average of 3 times per week, and has done so for two years.  He is greatly in demand, and does a good job gratis.  He had a lecture scheduled for the Greater Miami Aviation Association, a group of intelligent business men who further Miami's Aviation in every way possible.  Norman called me the day before the lecture and asked me to substitute for him.  Having never given a lecture in my life, I hesitated, but he insisted that I could do it, so I agreed to try.

The meeting was a luncheon at the 7-Seas restaurant in Miami.  The lecture was a 30 minute affair during which I mentioned no "hardware" in possession of the Air Force.  Then I left it open for questions, (there were only about 25 men there) One of the questions was, "Why, in your opinion, is the Air Force withholding information from the public?"  I gave an answer which I believe, and which I wrote about in a newspaper article a long time ago.

I said that the Air Force has openly told Newsmen that they fear a panic if they tell the truth about the saucers.  I also said that I do not believe that this is the true reason, The Air Force must be intelligent enough to realize the tremendous weapon they are putting into the hands of an enemy nation by withholding the truth.  If the enemy hit us tomorrow with everything they had, and simultaneously

dropped leaflets and broadcast on all possible radio frequencies that the flying saucers were their own weapons and that they were about to eliminate us with them, then Our Air Force Would have a panic on their hands.

Since our Air Force must be intelligent enough to recognize this danger, they therefore must have such an important reason for not admitting that saucers are interplanetary, that they are willing to risk the Public*s safety to protect the secret.

What could such a secret be?  I said this:- That, in my opinion, by the above deductions, there must be some vestige of truth in the oft repeated rumor that the Air Force has a saucer or parts thereof in their possession;  that they feared that if they admitted that they thought saucers were interplanetary that they would be pressed for the evidence and did not want to have to produce their prize and any resulting new discoveries in order to prevent this information from falling into the hands of the enemy.  Thus far the Russians have stolen anything they so desired.  What better way to prevent the loss of information that (sic) to deny the whole business and poo-poo it away to prevent espionage.

The above was my answer to one question at the end of the lecture, and heaven only knows how it got so spread around or why, exactly one month later, the Air Force took the trouble to issue an official denial.  My little old answer to a man's question couldn't have gotton (sic) to many people, but the AF certainly brought it before millions of people!  If they are actually trying to keep saucers out of the news, that's a dumb way to go about it.  Also, if my opinion in the answer above is true, and I can figure it out, then so can an enemy espionage agent, so I felt no qualms about voicing my personal opinion.  If true, it would already be out of the bag to anyone interested.  Of ours there is the alternative – that the AF is stupid enough to hand such a propaganda weapon to an enemy – but I hope not!

Note that my answer was based on personal opinion by deductive reasoning, and nothing else.  However there are many things which make me believe that it is true that the AF has something at Wright Field.  I'll tell you a few – but I'd appreciate it if you kept the information confidential for a number of reasons, not the least of which is the fact that PAA Publicity Department here in Miami has asked that I keep PAA's name out of the Saucer business.  This stems from one man, and I'm going to work on him at the first opportunity.  He needs a saucer education.  But I cannot blame him at the moment.  Press people call him as head of Public Relations, on the Saucer stuff.  He cant give an answer and the press thinks he's holding out.  He must stay in good with the press, sooooooo, that's it.

First of all, when Bill Fortenberry and I were interviewed by the AF interrogators the morning after the sighting, they put us in separate rooms.  Before the interview, we had agreed to ask the men if there was any truth behind the

rumor that the AF had one or more saucers at Wright Field.  Bill remembered to ask, in his room.  One of the investigators told him, "Yes, it is true."

I had forgotten to ask.  However, when all of the investigators and Bill and I were in one room, I remembered and did ask the question.  A Major Sharp was the only interrogator in uniform.  They all opened their mouths to answer the question, and quickly, Major Sharp looked at them, not me, and said very quickly, "NO!"  It appeared that he was telling them to shut up rather than addressing the answer to me.

In New York, when I was taking the Interplanetary side against three non-believers on a WJZ half hour TV panel discussion, (my opponents were Professor Lloyd Motz, Dr. of Astronomy, Barnard College, Professor Richard Youte, Dr. of Psychology, Columbia University and Mr. Frank Foster, Chief Meteorologist, Hayden Planetarium), I was thirsty (probably from nervousness) before the program, and stepped out of the studio to find a fountain.  A man who had been peering thru the glass door stopped me and asked what I thought of the Saucers.  I replied immediately that I thought they were interplanetary.  He said "You're right!"  – not, I think you're right or any other qualifying statement.  I asked him about a fountain and he walked with me directing me on a complicated route to the nearest fountain, so obviously he knew the studios.  From his voice, he might have been a commentator.  He would not identify himself, but said he had just returned from Washington, and had been given the whole story.  (this was the beginning of Aug/52)  He said that the "Wright Field Story" was true, and that the AF had recently operated a radio found in a saucer and caused the flurry of sightings over Washington where it was operated.  He said he couldn't tell me more, because he, and a LIFE reporter and another reporter who had been with them had been given the story on the basis that they'd release it only when notified.  Evidently they were never notified.  Robert S. Allen writes me that he's never been able to get at the report again that he was allowed to read, which the AF was, (sic) about the fall of 52, going to release to the public.

An Air Force Major told Norman Bean that it was true that there was a saucer at Wright Field, but that if Norman quoted him, he'd deny it.

Several reports came to Norman quite innocently about GI’s who saw the thing on a flat-car, but this is a vague one.

Here's a beauty.  A wealthy friend of mine in Miami has a salesman whose wife, once a WAC worked under Intelligence at Wright Patterson Field as a radio operator and decoder of all information.  I heard her tell this story in a straightforward manner, which I find difficult to doubt.  In the fall of 1952, she received a signal for a red and white alert, which you probably know is an AIRCRAFT ATTACK warning alert.  They were on this alert for two weeks.  At the end of the two weeks she found out that they had called the alert because

a flying saucer had been found after landing (she believes near Columbus, the biggest supply depot), and the thing had been brought to Wright Field.  They had called the alert because, from what they found in the Saucer (she didn't know what) they thought it had relayed valuable information back to an enemy and an attack was coming up.  Everone (sic) was excited about it there, and she talked to the photographers (Army Photog.) who went in to photograph it, and she saw one picture which a photographer named Joe brought to her.  It was taken from an angle, she said, "As tho you stood on a chair and took a forward downward view of it"  She said it had no wings, was round, silvery, but couldn't guess its size except to say that,  "It didn't look to (sic) big, but I had nothing to compare it with"

This girl has a child, and a fine home, and has cancer so badly that she isn't expected to live more than a year.  I don’t think she is lying.

Then, of course, is the mysterious case of the man who claimed to have seen a saucer in New Mexico, near Mexico City, which had fallen.  He changed his whole story later and said he was just joking — He was not noted as that kind of a person.

Then there is the Maury Island Mystery.  Read Ken Arnolds, THE COMING OF THE SAUCERS.  Clinkers were said to have dropped from a saucer in plain view of men, and the AF took them away.

Personally, I think the AF does have something, but I have not been going about spreading this theory; I merely answered a man's question at a small lecture to a small group of men.  However, there must have been a newsman there.  There was a visitor – a 4 striper Coast Guard – local boss.  All I can guess is that I hit the Air Force in a very soft spot to get such a rise out of them!  My Wife and Father-in-Law were in the audience at the lecture, and are as surprised as I am that such a fuss resulted.

Well – enough of that.  I just Read the TRUE article written by Ruppelt.  Ye God's!  Another insult to the intelligence of anyone who has been following the subject closely.  Admittedly, it will fool the hell out of the average man, but it is a very intelligent attempt at deception, designed to fool even the average saucer fan – in fact, it is aimed at them – or should i say – "us".  He's a shrewd one.  He gives enough unsolved stuff to make one believe he is being honest, but he distorts other cases in the typical A.F. fashion.  He bungled the hell out of his attempt with the Washington Radar sightings; – I'll bet that he'd have avoided that one if he thought he could.  Also he distorted Desvergers story tremendously.  I happen to have in my collection clippings which make Ruppelt a liar.  He said that Desvergers told the papers the AF wouldn't let him talk.  That's a lie.  I have clippings which say,  "The scoutmaster, D.S. "sonny" Desvergers, a hardware salesman, conceded he was free, as far as military authorities are concerned, to tell all about his experiences the night of Aug. 9" – unquote.  Also Ruppelt glossed over the testimony of the three Boy Scouts who were with

Desvergers.  The boys have excellent reputations in the City, and ieven(sic) if they didn't, it is next to impossible to get two boys, 11 years old and one, 12 years old to lie consistently under separate interrogation.  In my clippings of the time of the incident are these statements from reporters' interviews of the boys.

"They had gone a half mile again, when 2 of the boys, looking back, saw lights again.  Toung stevens said he saw several white lights in an eliptical (sic) pattern, "which went out and reappeared as red lights"  Young Ruffing described what he saw as "white lights in a straight line eight feet off the ground."

After Desvergers went into the area of the lights young Ruffing gives this description of what followed.

"I could see about the top half of his (Desvergers) body.  (That is all he'd be able to see, due to palmettos.  I was on the spot with Desvergers two weeks ago)  Then the beam of his flashlight pointed up and reflected back on him like it had shined on a mirror.  Then a reddish white ball of fire like a Roman candle came down toward him from the sky.  Then he fell down and disappeared."

Young Bowen said he saw "bright red lights like railroad flares"

Desvergers told me that after several straight days of solid questioning, physical exams and checking pieces of skin from his arm, he told them that he was just a Florida cracker – not accustomed to all of this high pressure stuff, and he was losing money by not working, and that he was going home.  To renew interviews, the officers brought him a bunch of their records of sightings.  (He told me he's convinced the AF doesn't have any hardware – feels he'd have seen it in these records if they did)  He said they asked him to make comparisons with his experience, and were pretty nice to him from then on.  He said they stopped the high pressure stuff after he rebelled.

At present, Desvergers seems to be a successful, intelligent citizen.  He has his own business selling and installing glass showers, owns a home, a 1953 Murcury (sic) station wagon and a hydroplane racing boat.  He tells his story in front of his wife with sincerity.  He said the men on the saucer looked like us with one exception, which he will not reveal.  Also said he was asked not to reveal something he saw around the egdes (sic) of the saucer.

Another thing that makes me feel that Desvergers had his experience, in spite of his past reputation, is the "smell" business.  He was the first person to report the awful odor accompanying some of the saucers.  It was reported in the "Monster" Case in West Va., around Sept 15, and at Belle Glade, Fla. on Sept 16th., both cases after Desverger's experience.  Then, two years later, Leslie, in the book with Adamski, quoted an ancient Egyptian Sighting taken from old writings in the Vatican Library, in which, a "Foul odor" was described coming from fiery discs – or Fire Circles" as they called them.  What would inspire desvergers to fabricate anything like a "smell like burning flesh or rotton (sic) eggs" right out of thin air if were originating his story?

Also there was another saucer, or UFO, seen at West Palm Beach on Sept 5, 1952.  It was observed by Miss June Zent, a 15 yr. old High school student and Mr And Mrs Wendell Wells, her Uncle and Aunt.  Mr Wells first saw the object.

"It was in front of us way up in the sky.  At first it looked like one big yellow-white light.  It seemed to be drifting-slanting down.  Then it got over into the woods on the left side of the road and dropped straight down.  When it got down closer to the ground it looked like it had more lights.  And right after it landed we saw another light that seemed to hover over the spot."  The light didn't resemble that of an airplane but reminded them of the rim of a coin.

"We turned down military trail to get closer to the place where it landed.  Soon we could see where the bushes were all lit up.  There are no houses around, so it is evident that's where it landed"

The landing place appeared to be a block and a half East of military trail  (The same road that Desvergers was on during his experience).  They couldn't drive back and didn'(t) want to go on foot because of the Wells' small children who were in the car.  Only comment from the Air Force was, "We're investigating".

Mis(s) Zent's address is 512½ Georga Ave, West Palm Beach Fla, and the Wells are residents of Belle Glade.

It looks pretty obvious that the UFO's were interested in something in that general area and that Desvergers was telling the truth.  Why didn't Ruppelt mention Miss Zent's and the Wells' sighting?  If I were Desvergers, I'd look up Ruppelt and punch him in the nose.

The farmer, Fred Brown, at Belle Glade, who had a saucer drift across his pasture at 30mph twice, each time stampeding his cows to t(h)e other end of the pasture, having horses break a fence and a gate, and who smelled the strong odor when the saucer went over, couldn't very well be copying the "smell" from Desvergers, because I talked to men who work with Brown, who came to work several hours after the experience, smelled the lingering odor and asked Brown what the hell he'd been spraying with.  Also the only reason Brown told anybody at all was because he had to short the milk customers (the cows had to be forced back to the barn – then gave only 5 gallons of milk instead of 15 for the next 3 days and didn't return to normal output for 3 weeks) and they wanted to know why.  Brown has a good rep.  I talked to him a long time personally.  He was with Gen. Patton for 4 years and 8 months in the Army.  The Army and Navy both questioned him at the Farm the next day.  When he tried to ask them questions they told him they were there to ask – not answer.  Incidently, it took all day to catch the horses and get them back to the pastu(r)e.  None of the animals wanted to return to that place.

A Marine Jet Captain (Dan C. Holland) was flying with 2 other jets March 22nd/54, heading East over the beach at Ft Lauderdale and starting a turn N. to the West, saw a white object like a falling star but slower dropping

down toward them.  He pulled to one side calling to the others. Suddenly the thing stopped two or 3 thousand feet above them, (they were at 22,000 ft.)  He could see clearly, a gleaming spherical ball of white about twice as big as his jet, with a gold ring around the lower third, like Saturn except the ring was off-center.  It hovered as he tried to get the others to see it.  They didn't, and it suddenly accelerated to the East and disappeared in 15 seconds.  He had been a saucer skeptic, but he said over the phone that now, "I am damned convinced"

Holland was a War II pilot and won six battle stars and 2 distinguished flying service crosses in Korea.  Five civilians also reported the object.  I wonder what they'll call this one?  Perhaps a lost Easter Egg?

There have been a number of sightings here recently by the Ground Observer Corps, and by persons in boats at night.  Either Ruppelt is so accustomed to deception that he can't get it out of his system ndash; or he is still in cahoots with the ATIC and their patronizing attitude toward the public, in which I feel that they take the liberty of deifying themselves.  True, there are crackpots – but when the reports are sifted, an awful lot are not from crackpots.

As far as "being taken in" by frauds and deceivers, I still want to emphasize to you, Joe, that because I write to these people does not mean that I swallow every tale whole.  As I said in a letter to you before, My opinion as to the way to get the most out of this subject and avoid missing somthing (sic) that might be important, is to check everything that comes to your attention.  I believe that this is one subject in which it is profitable in gaining knowledge, to operate on the assumption that everything is possible until proved otherwise by investigation.  (I do not recommend broadcasting it that way though) I definitely do not agree with the principle "Everything is a fake until proved otherwise"  That's a good way to miss something valuable.  In this UFO investigation no one can possibly be an "Expert", nor can reports be judged on comparison with things plausible as we know them.  A new and willing attitude, unchained by past experience comparisons is a valuable asset;  all this without becoming gullible.

I notice again, that the AF made no mention of the best Movies ever taken of a Saucer, the photography and object witnessed by sixteen persons.  That is Ralph Mayher's Film taken in Fall of 52 at Miami Beach.  He was in Marines at the time.  Got out a few months ago and now the story will appear in June "PIC" out May 5th.  Ralph now lives at 3472 W. 136th St., Cleveland Ohio.  Why don't you look him up?  Wonder why brother Ruppelt left this one out when he was talking about movies?  The AF has his film  (Lt. White at Pentagon recently told him he could have it back)

Wish you could have gotten the TV deal with Menzell!  And that you could have continued questioning Adamski.  Nice try in both cases!  You might let Jack Smith read this.

cc : J. DuBarry